S3E06: A Musical Embodiment of Home: Tonality’s Alexander Lloyd Blake
This week is a conversation with composer, music activist, and founding director of L.A.-based vocal ensemble, Tonality, Dr. Alexander Lloyd Blake, about forming a choir that is accessible, diverse, equitable, and inclusive from the ground up—making choral music something everyone can be a part of.
Music excerpts
“A Change is Gonna Come” by Sam Cooke, arr. by Tehillah Alphonso
“United We Dream” by Dr. Melissa Dunphy, words by Claudia D. Hernández
“No More” by Anthony Maglione
“Tulips” by Shawn Kirchner, soloists: Meredith Pyle Pedley and David Morales
“Democracy” by Jared Jenkins
Episode references
Theme Song: Mr. Puffy by Avi Bortnik, arr. by Paul Kim. Performed by Dynamic
Episode Transcript
Intro [00:00:07] Hello! And welcome to In Unison, the podcast about new choral music, and the conductors, composers and choristers who create it! We are your hosts: I am Zane Fiala, Artistic Director of the International Orange Chorale of San Francisco, and I’m Giacomo DiGrigoli, a tenor in IOCSF, the Golden Gate Men’s Chorus, and the SF Symphony Chorus. And this is, In Unison! (I like being in unison!)
Zane [00:00:35] Today on In Unison, we're gonna be chatting with Dr. Alexander Lloyd Blake, the director of an incredible ensemble based in Los Angeles, California, called Tonality. Before we get rolling, we wanted to mention that most of the recordings we will play on today's episode were originally posted to Instagram in the form of beautifully produced video projects. So if you haven't already, head over to Instagram, follow @ourtonality and watch the videos. They are outstanding! Now to give you a little taste of Tonality's sound, as well as their outlook on how choral music can affect social change, here's their performance of Tehilla Alfonso's arrangement of Sam Cooke's legendary tune "A Change is Gonna Come" [00:01:18] [Music excerpt: a choir sings a sweeping introduction to a soloist by intoning "oohs" and "aahs". A female soloist then sings a heartfelt and soulful rendition of "A Change is Gonna Come"]
Zane [00:05:13] Today on In Unison, we are joined by award winning conductor, composer, arranger, vocal contractor, singer and music activist Dr. Alexander Lloyd Blake. Named one of Musical America's 30 Professionals of the Year in 2019 and recipient of the Louis Botto Award for Innovative Actions and Entrepreneurial Zeal from Chorus America, Dr. Blake was recently featured in both the New York Times and the L.A. Times for his work in diversity and anti-racism within classical music.
Zane [00:05:42] Alex is the founding artistic director of Tonality, an award winning choral ensemble focused on spreading a message of unity, peace and social justice through a culturally diverse choral setting. He also serves as the choir director at L.A. County High School for the Arts and is a principal associate conductor of the National Children's Chorus. As an arranger, Alex's "Wade in the Water" was a featured arrangement at the North Carolina Music Educators Association convention in 2013 and is published with Santa Barbara Music Publishing. His arrangements of "Deep River" and "Poor Wayfaring Stranger" are published by Alliance Music Publishing and Walton Music Publishing, respectively. Alex's recent film and TV credits include singing on the soundtrack of Jordan Peele's "Us", Disney's "Lion King" and Pixar's "Spies in Disguise". He also worked as the choral contractor and vocal arranger for Andy Grammer's performance at the 2019 ARDYs, the Radio Disney Awards, and recently prepared singers for the 2020 Grammy Awards and performed at the 92nd Academy Awards. Dr Blake received his DMA from USC, his master's from UCLA and his bachelor's cum laude from Wake Forest University in North Carolina. Welcome, Alex! Thanks so much for joining us on In Unison!
Alex [00:07:03] Thank you so much for having me and reading every success I've had! [laughter]
Giacomo [00:07:08] [laughter] We're thrilled to have you! I have to say, I have definitely been fanboying and sort of watching your, your group over the last several months. And it is just absolutely exciting to finally get to chat with you. And I feel like I've gotten a chance to get to know you a little bit better because umm - just sort of from following you on social media and hearing Tonality's album and all the work that you have been doing. But we'd love to give our audience a chance to get to know you a little bit more personally as well. So we always start these episodes with a little bit of an icebreaker. And here's one for you! Alex, if you could instantly become an expert at anything, any skill, Keanu Reeves, Matrix-style, what would it be?
Alex [00:07:51] Ooh! It's a good question! I think if I could instantly learn any skill, I think I would pick up a lot of languages. I would love to learn languages quickly.
Zane [00:08:01] That's a great one.
Giacomo [00:08:03] Yeah, being a polyglot - we talked to Mari Esabel Valverde, who you may know of...
Alex [00:08:09] Yes. Mmhmm...
Giacomo [00:08:09] ... as a composer as well. And she is extraordinary. She is just... All her language facility is incredible. So, yes! I would join you in that skill. It would be fantastic!
Zane [00:08:17] Yeah, me as well! One of my former teachers, Dr. Joshua Habermann, he just has an affinity for learning languages. And I was always blown away by that. I personally do not have that affinity [laughter from Giacomo]. I struggle learning languages, but my wife learns them really quickly. And I'm a little jealous of her, too.
Alex [00:08:33] My mother taught Spanish and German...
Zane [00:08:36] Awesome!
Alex [00:08:37] She didn't teach me any of it but... [laughter from Zane].
Giacomo [00:08:38] Ah, yes! Except I'm going to jump forward to one of the questions I had about language studying, because I do... I, I believe I've seen through your social media and other places that you are studying several languages. So my first question on that vein is: "di volevo fare questo demanda in italiano. È vero che lei parla italiano e lei praticato por molto tempo?"
Alex [00:09:04] "Sì! Vorrei praticare più. Ho studiato due anni a Venezia, undici anni fa. Mi... E piaciuto la lingua molto. Allora, ho continuate miei studi. Quando sono stonato, ma studio qui."
Giacomo [00:09:19] "Ahh! Hai un accento proprio bellissimo! Non sapevo che parlavi l'italiano così bello! E lei... Signore Fiala ascolta a noi pero non capisca niente." [laughter from Zane]
Alex [00:09:19] "Ahh! Vere. Sì, sì! Ma grazie!"
Giacomo [00:09:35] [laughter] For those who are listening, we were just talking about Alex... learned to speak Italian. So I'm going to do a quick translation here.
Zane [00:09:41] Yeah! For those who are still listening [laughter from Giacomo]... 'cause most of them were like, "Oh! Show's for me in Italian? Stop!"
Giacomo [00:09:44] Oh, come on! Musicians... musicians are listening. Come on! Italian will serve you quite well, at least in sort of Western music, things like that.
Zane [00:09:53] Translate for us Giacomo!
Giacomo [00:09:54] But, yes - It sounds like you studied while you were in Venice about 11 years ago and were picking up. How did you wind up in Venice and studying Italian, though?
Alex [00:10:02] Yeah, so I... Wake Forest University owned a couple of international houses and one of them is in Venice, right next to the Guggenheim Museum. And I was actually thinking about minoring in Spanish, but I didn't want to go to Spain. And so a music teacher, Dr. Kairoff, who also speaks Italian, asked me, you know - well, you told me there are these independent research projects - and he asked me, "You know, if you could do a research project, what would you study?" And I kind of in a joke said, "Well, you know, I love gospel music. It'd be great to study that in Italy." And he said, "That actually sounds kind of interesting!" And we looked and we found gospel ensembles - in Italy! And so I applied and I won a research grant to, to meet the composers and to go to the rehearsals. And then also, at the same time, I was taking classes in introductory Italian and, you know, learning about the culture and classical music there as well.
Giacomo [00:11:05] That's really amazing! That's... What an incredible experience to be able to just... and to be able to pick that for yourself and to have teachers and folks who are, who are supportive in that way. I think that's really fantastic! I think it's absolutely brilliant. Alex, tell us a little bit about... You are - you are the music director of a pretty brilliant group called Tonality. In your own words, tell us what, what is Tonality?
Alex [00:11:31] Tonality is a vocal ensemble that likes to use, I would say, has focused our art in creating a space of empathy. And also inciting change. And I would also like to think that we are a place where people can feel like their stories are valued - their stories as humans, but also their stories in the way they are expressed in terms of the genres that are incorporated and the people who are involved in telling those stories. And that is given kind of the utmost respect and... Yeah, I would just - I would like to see Tonality become "home", you know. And I think it has for a lot of people and I think we're going to continue that work. So I would say, really, do you say what Tonality is - I would say it's... It's a musical embodiment of "home" and what that can mean.
Giacomo [00:12:25] Yes, and you've got quite a mission as well. I mean, I think you are... You have a very specific mission as an ensemble. Can you tell us a little bit about that?
Alex [00:12:32] Sure. Yeah. I mean, the thing is it's along the same vein - really using our voices and the music that we incorporate to incite change and activism. And really connecting our music to help people kind of emotionally be moved and motivated to connect with organizations that are actually doing work in the subjects of social justice.
Giacomo [00:12:57] I have to say, as a fan of Tonality and listening to your recent album, the notions that you bring to the table of social change and social justice, of course, feel quite timely. But the music and your expression feels incredibly timeless. And yet! What is surprising is that you were actually only founded in 2016. And so what's remarkable is that you have this very established and beautiful sound, but you're really, you're really kind of just beginning. You've gained quite a bit of publicity and reputation for musical excellence and social impact with coverage in The New York Times, The L.A. Times and more. But we all know that it started with an idea and the will to create something new. What was that journey over the past five years, from early days to now like?
Alex [00:13:41] Sure. Yeah. You know, it is interesting. Yeah, we will hit our five year anniversary very soon.
Giacomo [00:13:46] Congratulations!
Alex [00:13:48] Thank you! Yeah. I think the first part of that was really - people know us now as a social justice group - the beginning of Tonality though was just trying to create a space where there was no one who felt like the "other". I think we have had a lot of conversations about how classical music has been pretty exclusive and has certainly done its work to make people who are not coming from Eurocentric cultures feel ostracized. And I would say, unfortunately, some of our academic programs perpetuate that sentiment.
Alex [00:14:22] And so as a black classical musician, I remember feeling a certain way. As someone who's coming from a gospel background as, you know, I was talking about earlier - seeing how that music was treated and how the performance practice of the styles were "guesstimated" in so many of my special academic choral environments. And then once I became aware of that and then became more aware of what that felt like, seeing how that was also perpetuated in other cultures. And saying that this can be done in another way.
Alex [00:14:54] So, I would say that was kind of the beginning of Tonality - just asking that question of "What does it look like when we actually respect people's cultures - from a musical perspective?" And then evolving and expanding that mission to say we can do more than just be diverse. But we can use these different perspectives to speak toward issues of marginalization and injustice. I think really over the past five years, to see that question that I felt like I was having privately and maybe small conversations with friends - that was a common question that more people wanted to get involved in and maybe didn't have a place where they can ask that and kind of live that out. And then, of course, when George Floyd died, it seemed like the whole world asked that question.
Zane [00:15:47] Mm hmm.
Alex [00:15:48] And so some of the organizations that have been kind of working toward those answers and trying to create a new reality were certainly thrust, I think, in some ways into places of leadership. And it's really just been a, I would say, joy, of course, with a lot of complicated emotions. But to have the opportunity to say, "We don't know how it's done. We haven't seen it, and it's not always going to be perfect. But we're going to work together and hopefully now can work with our whole community to kind of see what it looks like when that respect is lived out, not just from one organization to another, but that we're all trying to be a part of the new change in the reality."
Zane [00:16:31] Let's listen to some of Tonality's message of unity and inclusivity with Dr. Melissa Dunphy's composition "#UnitedWeDream" - a piece focused on immigration and an inclusive sense of belonging, something we all dream of for a better America. [00:16:47] [Music excerpt: a soloist sings a dreamy, folk song-like melody with gradual additions of harmony and voices. The message of inclusivity within the lyrics are reinforced with more intricate harmony and short interpolations of Spanish with the mostly English lyrics - reflecting the diversity of the U.S.]
Giacomo [00:20:17] I think a lot of groups talk a lot about sort of retrofitting. There's this notion, I think, of like, "Boy, how do we become more diverse or how do we sort of start thinking about A.D.E.I. (accessibility, diversity, equity and inclusion) lessons and sort of how do we incorporate this into our practice?" But you incorporated it from the ground up. I mean, it was the definition of Tonality. So what lessons did you learn about A.D.E.I. during the process of creating Tonality that you would share with others who were starting from the beginning saying, "Hey! You know what? I want to make sure that we do this from the get-go. We're not trying to retrofit anything." What might you share with folks who are in that same position?
Alex [00:20:52] Sure. I think there are - Well, we'll start just easy basics: if you want diversity to be the lens at which... with which you see the work that you're doing, you should make sure that the people who have positions of agency are diverse. I think one of the stumbling blocks is that, you know, there are a lot of people who want to do this work, but then you look at the people who actually control those organizations and it's pretty homogeneous. And so, yeah, I just think that the work that needs to be done first is really choosing and then allowing and expanding maybe these positions of power and making sure that the leadership shows diversity there. And then you won't have to run into so many issues later down the road.
Alex [00:21:35] Also, I think being OK with not knowing - this is certainly not something that we learn within our academic institutions [laughter]. And I think the higher up you go, the more credibility is given to what you know or what you're able to act as if you know. And so some of the work that we have done, I can name a very specific instance. When we were trying to do the women's rights concert and, in just the way that Tonality tends to do the concerts, it tends to be around, you know, different issues because we're not kind of creating trendy topics. These have always been in the conversation.
Alex [00:22:16] And so we had come up with the idea of a women's rights concert and then the #Metoo movement happened in that same year. And so by the time it came to actually put together the concert, I said, "Oh! Well, you know, we should do a concert on the #Metoo movement. Obviously! We have a chance to be responsive in this way." But! I've been a part of so many concerts where black music has been the subject where clearly no black people have been asked. And I thought, "Let's not do that!" [laughter]
Alex [00:22:47] And so I was able to put together a group of our board members, our female board members, some composers that we wanted to work with, and some singers in the group and our co-conductor, and said, "OK, this is my idea: the #Metoo movement. This is going to be great! But I just want to get your thoughts just to make sure that, you know, we're going in the right way."
Alex [00:23:08] And they said, "You know, that... is interesting. When it comes to sexual assault there are... they are women's problems, but they are men's issues." Hadn't thought about it like that but again, you know, I'm coming from my perspective. And so the concert turned into, you know, really speaking about the strength of women's voices and how that has been silenced by patriarchal society. But it was just really interesting to kind of be in that mode and say this was an experience in an environment, in a community that I personally do not come from. But I was also not threatened by the opportunity to bring in people to help come up with those things. And I would say really that collaboration, and asking, and then allowing other people to have, again, decision making power is important. And I really feel like if we are going to be bold enough to step into other people's perspectives as musicians and give other people's stories, we have to be asking them how those stories need to be presented.
Zane [00:24:17] Yeah.
Giacomo [00:24:17] It sounds like a lot of it is about the willingness to have the dialogue and to sort of say, "I do or I don't know these things." And a willingness to learn a learner's mindset, if you will. And I imagine that that dialogue has gotten to be quite broad recently because you've had quite a bit of publicity and attention from lots of folks now, which is spectacular. It's really great! And so I imagine that there's a dialogue that's continuing. How has all that recent publicity impacted your ability to deliver on Tonality's mission?
Alex [00:24:50] Yeah, umm... I think more people are asking the "how" - you know, kind of like this conversation - asking us how do you go about... how do you create these concepts? How do you, you know, continue to have difficult conversations? And how do you invite your audiences in? The process of what we do has been something that we've been able to really talk about and expand, because even for groups that aren't doing social justice work, they still, I imagine, want to see diverse audiences and want to respect and reflect their community. And so we've been able to kind of share that more. Tonality has done some leadership workshops and I think certainly the energy that we have received around that would have not been as... You know, I don't think we would have been as popular and successful in getting that word out if we hadn't had the, you know, the news, the L.A. Times, The New York Times representing us.
Alex [00:25:47] So it's been great to be able to use that... that work in those articles to kind of just help propel you know, we have been doing this for a while and there have been a lot of people who have reached out since those articles have come out asking specific questions. So really feeling like, you know, I felt like we were doing the work in a vacuum...
Zane [00:26:08] Mm hmm.
Alex [00:26:11] ... before this past year. And yet we received, you know, we've gotten beautiful coverage and support from KUSC, the classical radio station here in Los Angeles. But kind of feeling it was very insular, I think, due to the virtual nature of this past year and some of these articles, we've really been able to help start or at least continue a national conversation about moving the culture forward.
Giacomo [00:26:36] And speaking about this this past year, which has been, wow, quite a roller coaster in many regards for social justice and change, the pandemic - obviously, all of these things sort of looming quite large. Despite the circumstances, Tonality has pulled together quite a season! You had premiers of several pieces and a virtual season, I believe, via Patreon and have been just spectacular to watch. I wanted to talk about a couple of the specific pieces that you released during this period of time, one of which really hit me hard. I thought it was incredibly beautiful. "1232 Lyfe" - which I thought was just extraordinary! I would refer to this not as a video. I felt like it was a short film. It felt really like a documentary. It was incredibly beautiful. And folks who haven't seen it, you should actually listen to it. But I wanted to ask you first, where did the idea for this piece come from? Because you composed this piece as well as directing the group. So where did the idea for it come from?
Alex [00:27:32] So I will say the idea for this specific piece actually came after the idea for the concert. And I have been talking to some of our singers about subjects that we wanted to talk about and criminal justice came up and it actually came up a couple of years before we actually decided to do the concert. I didn't really know much about it, the subject in itself. And the more I learned, the more I was - I think I shouldn't say shocked because that's I think insulting to all the systemic issues we've had - but yeah, the more disappointed and frustrated. And I watched the "13th" - my friend Roman GianArthur, who wrote "Build Me Up", told me to watch that on Netflix. And I learned a lot... about just how systemic some of these issues of injustice are. And I learned about the "three strikes" law.
Alex [00:28:27] And I thought, "Maybe I'm the only one who didn't know, but this is horrendous!" The fact that you can be given a life sentence for something so small based on your past. If all of us are judged off the things that we did when we were younger, I think many of us would probably be in a situation where [laughter from Zane]... you know, I'll just keep it there. So the fact that certain people literally are locked away for the rest of their lives because of things that happened before, as if they can't change and can't grow. The same type of benefit that we are all given as humans was infuriating to me, and so that's kind of where that piece came. I said we have to say something about the piece, but we are musicians. So the best way we can say it is to perform it.
Alex [00:29:17] And right before the pandemic ended, we did a concert with Tune-Yards, which is amazing. And they used the kind... this hocket system - this kind of looping, you know, envelopment. I remember riding my bike and just thinking about "one, two, three". I was like, "That would be so cool if we could put something together like that!" Having never, ever written anything like that, I thought, you know, "We'll see how that comes out. But, you know, it would be really awesome to see." And then the whole piece kind of just went from there.
Zane [00:29:46] Let's listen to how Alex's Tune-Yards inspired idea turned out with Tonality's performance of his composition, "1232 Lyfe". The piece focuses on the "three strikes" law, which significantly increases the prison sentences of persons convicted of a crime who have been previously convicted of two or more violent crimes or serious felonies, and limits the ability of these offenders to receive a punishment other than a life sentence. [00:30:15] [Music excerpt: individual members of a vocal ensemble sing the numbers "1", "2", "3" and are processed as if each voice is coming from a different location. The rhythm speeds up until voices coalesce together in intricate counterpoint, with individual solos from various members.]
Giacomo [00:34:24] And I might be mistaken on this, but you... I believe you humbly referred to this piece as your first composition - I'm not sure if that's entirely true or not. But composers often say that they have a roadmap for composition and they fill in the details afterwards. So it sounds like maybe you also had some ideas of details in your mind, like the "one, two, three" on your bike. What was the process like for you in completing this first composition?
Alex [00:34:48] Ooh! Yeah, I think probably most composers have a lot more developed system [laughter] than I do. One, I wanted the piece to reflect the culture, which meant it wasn't going to be, you know, a nice "legato" type situation [laughter]. And so I think, you know, thinking about what does this piece need to say - are we going to just hammer out all the details of the "three strikes" law? I don't think it's really needed. It's a pretty simple law to understand. We specialize - "we" as in Tonality - in stories. So I thought, "You know, what does that look like?" So it looked like researching the laws and kind of finding some of these examples of people stealing socks or stealing pizza. And because they had previous violent or felonies, they were then given a life sentence and so I thought, you know, "What if we're taking this family and this father who steals socks for his baby. And because of previous incidences with the law, he was now being threatened with a life sentence." I think that you can talk about the actual issue and you can talk about all the injustices, or you can just talk about this family story. I think that's, you know, the emotional thing.
Alex [00:36:11] So that was kind of the beginning. And then just trying to put that into verses and, you know, letting the two soloists, and we brought in the soloists again to kind of really help with the performance practice of this, of the piece. And then, I don't know. I guess I... So you can hear in my speaking about it just [laughter]... I don't know if there's much process. I think it was just, "This would be cool if... I think we should do some countdown with the singers, we should make some commentary about how there's no room for grace in the system.".
Alex [00:36:50] And then, really the roadmap was there and then allowing the soloists to say, "You know, I'm not going to kind of control. This is how I would like the lines to go." But you are singing the lines. So, how you take it over is really up to you. So, it's really interesting to kind of say, like, as much... I had help, obviously. I had numerous people: Neka Hamilton, Roman GianArthur, Moira Smiley also kind of help give ideas with the piece. So then it just became a collaborative process. And then, of course, the piece ends and we were well within the virtual choir. So I would say the...
Alex [00:37:29] I should tell an interesting story in my already long winded story about this, but the concert was gonna happen in the middle of March and it was canceled two days before because of, you know, COVID. The piece actually wasn't done! [laughter] So we had our dress rehearsal. I think it was the Thursday we find out that the dress rehearsal was canceled. The Friday was our dress rehearsal. And I was thinking, "I'm gonna finish the piece by then." And I didn't. And the piece actually didn't get finished until right before we recorded a couple of months later. So I would say the piece totally turned into something, I would say, a lot better than it would have been. And having done all these recordings definitely influenced how the piece was recorded, too.
Giacomo [00:38:15] I think what's clear, even how you talk about it and the experience of actually listening to it, and I can't even imagine, by the way, performing it... what it will take out of you to perform this piece. But one of the things that's very clear, I think, is that you lead with heart and lead with empathy. And I think the storytelling, you just feel that when you're... when you're listening along. And another piece that you did during the pandemic, which I think really just nails home that same sort of sense of empathy and just imagining what folks must feel is the piece called "No More", Anthony Maglione's composition. It's a heartbreaking treatise on gun violence in America. And I remember watching the video, which came out just a few weeks ago, you worked with Peter Paige on this deeply personal piece. Can you tell us the process of putting that video together? Because it is pretty striking and the visuals and the imagery of it are just heartbreaking. And it just... I mean, it takes you right to the headlines today. I mean, even still today. Tell us a little bit about the process of actually putting that video together.
Alex [00:39:19] Sure! And that was a reprise of a video that we had done in 2018 or '19. We just... We posted it and put captions on it, of course. So, when we... when I got that piece from Tony and just listening to the different city names and all the different statistics thinking, "I never heard a piece like that." But it's such a - "beautiful" is definitely not the word - striking piece about, yeah, the gun pandemic that we have in this country. And so we were recording it for our album and I remember I met Peter Page recently. And we were just talking and I said, you know, I think it would be really great to do a music video, and he came up with the idea, you know, "We should have the video end with an actual incident." And you don't see it, but everyone knows it's gonna happen. It gives me chills every time I talk about this!
Zane [00:40:31] Mmm...
Alex [00:40:31] And it gave me chills when he said it. And I just remember thinking... Now, okay, like I said, this is a couple of years ago, "So has anyone ever done a video like this? But also is anyone singing songs like this?" So, you know, the door is wide open in terms of what we can do. And so we were able to use Saint Mark's (Church) in Altadena. With one of our board members having access there as a choir director, we invited, of course, our singers to sing in the video. But we also invited some of our community members. And so some of the actors in the video are just, you know, people from our community, people on our board.
Alex [00:41:13] And Peter Paige and his team - he explains, you know, that the video is really about humanity and about celebrating life and what that looks like when people are then engaged with gun violence and how all of that is lost. And so I remember there was one moment that when we did the final, you know, shot, for lack of a better word, and he had me turn around as a thing happened and we shot that. And after that, the whole room was quiet.
Zane [00:41:46] Yeah, I bet.
Alex [00:41:47] And, me not being an actor nor a film editor, not knowing what that would look like - clearly, he knew what that would look like. And we showed that video throughout the first couple of weeks after the album was done and we showed it at our album release party, we showed it for different people. And it was always the same reaction. People would watch a couple of other videos that we had done and get claps. You get, "Oh! That's really beautiful!" You showed that video silence. And yes, if you haven't seen it, I'll just warn you, at the end, just know it is pretty intense, but I think it really does bring home... the fact that it is not just the person who is doing the incidents of violence. And it's not also necessarily just the people who are, you know, whose lives are lost that day, but it's a whole community. It's a whole nation. Hopefully soon it will become politicians' emotional response and then therefore, you know, actual action in terms of really creating a situation where if we can't totally erase these instances, you can make it a lot harder for them to happen.
Alex [00:43:02] But I feel like this is... It was a perfect video and piece for people to see. This is how music can move people, to get involved, because we all... We've all seen and I think have become desensitized. I mean, you just see another story in another story of gun violence at a school, at a theater, at a club. And it's hard to hold emotional weight every time. And I feel like this music and this video was able to kind of knock some of that shock back into the system. And that's, that's really what I feel like we as artists can do and need to be doing.
Zane [00:43:39] Let's experience that piece now, and while it is very moving on its own, we highly recommend you watch the video directed by Peter Paige. As Alex warned, it's not for the faint of heart, but it is very powerful. We will have a link to the video in our show notes. Here is "No More" written by Anthony Maglioni, performed by Tonality on their debut album, Sing About It. [00:44:04] [Music excerpt: a bell chimes, then a female voice speaks "No more". These words are spoken over and over by different speakers until a choir sings the same words in unison, then in harmony. Speakers state gun-related homicide statistics over the choir.]
Zane [00:49:26] Something that strikes me about Tonality's... Well, everything about Tonality, you know, in the world of music, you know, as trained musicians, we know why music is beautiful to us, right? We hear a beautiful sonority. We hear a really thick, complex chord. And like, "Oh, that really resonates with me because I'm a musician. I understand, like, why that's really, really beautiful." And for, you know, the average person who's consuming music, who maybe isn't trained, also recognizes why music is beautiful, because it makes them feel good. But there's something about Tonality's mission and the way that you bring these ideas of what's happening in our culture, in our society to the forefront that makes your music so much more universal and therefore so much more universally impactful. And that, I think, is one of the things that you should be lauded for is how you're making classical music to a certain degree, choral music so universal and so impactful. And it's just really, it's just really something that you should be commended for. And to follow that also, aside from those two pieces that we just discussed, what else are you most proud of from this most recent season?
Alex [00:50:39] Yeah, well, let's see. I mean, I think one incorporating ASL performance was a new big step for us. I think also the collaborations we've been able to do visually. Most, I would say, most choirs are not really prioritizing the visual aspect of what we do. And the virtual environment has really forced us to really consider that, which has been really exciting. Pietro Torrisi, who's a friend of mine, he has done a lot of the ah, all the cinematography for the videos and his vision for what the music can do with the visuals are powerful. Visuals, I think has really kind of taken our impact to another level, because even for the people who maybe don't see the type of music we do, choral music as their scene can definitely look at these videos and say, "Oh, that's for me - that is my story."
Alex [00:51:39] And so I would say we're able to bring in a lot of people who I think you say choir and they think one thing. And then I can show them this video and they're like, "That's not the choir I remember." I said, "Yeah! This is what we do." And so I think we've gotten a couple more fans because of the work. So it's been exciting to kind of bring in a lot more people for whom choral music might not have been a place that they considered themselves welcome.
Giacomo [00:52:06] So, Alex, you've introduced us via Tonality and your Instagram live feeds to several folks who often sign your concerts. So I've introduced us to the importance of including ASL in the choral spectrum, including folks like Kristina Monson and especially Rorri Burton and the Pro Bono ASL folks and others. When I think about Tonality, your music direction specifically often considers physicality and motion. How has your study and incorporation of sign language influenced your thoughts and movement and expression as it relates to singing and performance?
Alex [00:52:41] Hmm... It's interesting. So I've just started to learn some ASL myself, but really, I think just the message of Tonality, of not letting anyone to feel excluded, I would say more than kind of my own physicality has led to this work with Pro Bono ASL. I recently met a new deaf friend and, you know, naturally I invite all my friends to be a part of our concerts, virtual or not. And I realized, at the time, I had... we had not done really anything to - I never met a deaf person and we had not done anything at the time to create accessibility in our concert. So that was for the December concert and we kind of quickly captioned the whole concert. And I remember having a talk with the board and some of the singers and some of the people who are helping with the concert and saying, "Well, now that we know someone who's deaf, like we can't go back because, you know, I say there's grace in ignorance. But once, you know, then we have a responsibility, especially as an organization who's not only becoming more well-known for inclusivity, but that's something that we prioritize."
Alex [00:53:53] And so, you know, having conversations, meeting Pro Bono - this is another case where I think not - I mean, I've gone to school and paid rent on the organization of sound. So to work with the community who is not hearing, who has a hard time hearing - you know the hard of hearing community - that takes a lot of asking and a lot of collaboration. And working with Pro Bono ASL has been such an amazing experience - not just meeting another organization and meeting other people - but really getting to always ask ourselves and ask them. And then also working with deaf performers and other deaf friends - what is it like for us to really engage in this work and making sure that we are asking questions and not just being accessible? I think accessibility is a nice first step. And that was the first step that we made, kind of in a quick decision in December. But that's not, you know... I don't want to just, I wouldn't want to just be a part of something that was just accessible. That's like tolerating vegetables. I want to be appreciated and involved.
Alex [00:55:00] And so I think it has been kind of when we did "1232 Lyfe", and actually involved one of the Pro Bono ASL, Kristina Monson, but also involved Michael Agyin, who is a deaf performer. And it's like this is not just for you to watch and say, "Oh, I can watch this." Like I want to see myself in these things and know that we are including deaf performers in our work. What that looks like in live performances, we're still trying to figure that out. But really, the goal for us is to make sure... Maybe it's in a year's time, you know, that our deaf community here in Los Angeles can say, "You know, there is a choir where I know I can go to their concerts, and even if I don't hear what they're doing, I know that they have considered me and they value me and they want me to be involved and not just present."
Zane [00:55:50] Yeah, I think the point that, you know, we talk about A.D.E.I. a lot and the "A", of course, at the beginning stands for accessibility, but it's it's the last one that's the more important one which is inclusivity. It's inclusion. It's not just making it accessible. It's actually reaching arms out and including everybody as much as we can.
Giacomo [00:56:10] I mean, speaking of... in broadening the impact in the voices at the table or the folks who are able to see themselves reflected in choral music, you are the primary author of something called the Black Voices Matter Pledge. And our listeners, if you don't know about it, there's a previous episode that we had done that was entirely dedicated to it. But maybe you can briefly describe the pledge in your own words.
Alex [00:56:38] Sure! I think the pledge helps to give some practical steps to really creating a space where, yes, while the pledge is obviously focused on black artists and black writers, it really is, I would say, can be seen as the first steps of a roadmap to create anti-racist environments within classical music. And again, whether it's bringing in people to help expand the repertoire, changing or modifying the rules and regulations around competitions, just trying to create an equitable space so that, again, the kind of feeling of "other" and exclusion is eradicated from our choral environment.
Giacomo [00:57:22] What feedback have you received thus far? I mean, what has been, how has the world received the pledge?
Alex [00:57:28] I think, overall, very positively. You know, we have, I think, over eleven thousand signatures now, which is kind of crazy! And yeah, I think people are really excited about having these steps. I will say personally, I'm really interested in seeing how these steps will be executed. We've had a whole year of talking about imagining what this reality will be, but we've all been at home. So it's... it's one thing to talk about ideals and it's another thing to actually put them into practice. And I think, you know, going back to the status quo is something that I personally am looking to see doesn't happen. And so I think this pledge also gives, and this is what I've been talking about with people, gives us sort of accountability. You know, if you sign the pledge, we're able to kind of have a conversation.
Alex [00:58:16] Some of them have already started to happen - just kind of, "Hey, did you think about... have you considered?" Or having people reach out and ask some questions from the pledge like, "What does this look like in my choir when we don't have... Or how do I have a conversation after this happens?" And so I would say the pledge is really allowed again, while people can sign on, it also allows another kind of road and opening pathways for communication for people to talk and to ask questions and to give answers and get perspectives.
Alex [00:58:50] We have definitely been working and have added recently a session or a section for singers as well. So it's not just to organizational leaders who are signing on, but the singers, I would say, where a lot of this energy actually comes from first - also feel like they can be seen and have some control. You might not control the budget, but you can help, especially in a collaborative effort, talk to the people in charge about what you want to see and what organization you want to be a part of. And so we've added that in the pledge. But I think people, it's been another place for people to start conversations past the statements, which is really why the pledge started. Which is like, after the statements and black squares, "What does this actually mean?" [laughter] And so I think the pledge, in my hope, this starts to answer some of those questions.
Giacomo [00:59:41] I'm hoping we dig into your point like we haven't had quite the same level of opportunity because of COVID to see, you know, what the impact of the pledge will be entirely in terms of like folks who are singing from the list of rep from underperformed black composers. But have you begun to see that change from some of the groups and some of the signers of the pledge? I mean, have you started to see underperformed black composers get a little bit more light?
Alex [01:00:12] Yes! I mean, I can say even in my own, you know, with my one composition and a couple of arrangements, I think definitely people are asking questions and looking for that type of work. So, yeah! Definitely I've seen a change, certainly again in the conversation. I think as people are getting back to school and getting back to their professional places, it's going to have to be a retraining of so many minds, because I think really what we're looking at is kind of the definition of what success and what excellence looks like has to totally change if we're going to be equitable. And it all is nice and good to talk about until we talk about how that affects the bottom dollar. And I can make all, you know, from Tonality's perspective and other organizations can make so many arguments about why diversity is actually fiscally beneficial.
Alex [01:01:06] But I think people are going to have to see that. And the system, as it was before COVID, did not really play into that narrative. And so it's going to be, I think, a big shift for some organizations to really consider that after that pandemic. So I'm... Those are the conversations I'm... I won't say I want to look forward to having, but I feel like will be necessary to kind of say, "Hey! That energy that we all were kind of expending, this is the time! And, you know, it was all beautiful and flowers. They're going to be some rocks along the path, too, but we're doing it together." So I think that's... hopefully that will help.
Zane [01:01:43] Speaking of that list of underperformed black composers that the pledge cited, I remember coming across it months ago on your Instagram feed. And I immediately went and sought out the list and started to look into the music. Who are some of your favorite living composers from that list?
Alex [01:02:02] That's a good question. I'm just going to say, and she's probably going to roll her eyes and yell at me later... but Zanaida Robles.
Giacomo [01:02:07] Yes! [laughter from Alex]
Zane [01:02:09] Big fans. We're talking to her in a couple days.
Giacomo [01:02:11] Big, huge fans!
Alex [01:02:11] Yes! [laughter from Giacomo] I remember, I kind of bullied, encouraged [laughter from Zane]... her to write some pieces for Tonality. And the perspective that she brings, I would say, both to kind of the work that we have done with her, but also her works that involve, you know, more classic texts is so refreshing and intuitive. And I don't know if there are... if I can come up with enough positive words to talk about some Zanaida's species, but... Dr. Robles' pieces. But I think really she has been a composer I've been... and of course, she's involved in the board of Tonality and she's a good friend. But to watch her kind of, I would say even recently, find her place within the world of composers, working composers is definitely - I think all of us in our field are definitely at a benefit because she has found her voice in that way.
Zane [01:03:18] Yeah, her piece "Can You See" on the Tonality album, it moved Giacomo and myself significantly. In fact, I purchased a perusal score from her so that I could share with my choir this piece of music 'cause I was just so moved by it. And I'm hoping to program it actually for a future, future season for sure.
Alex [01:03:40] That last 40 seconds...
Zane [01:03:42] Ughh, I know. I know! [laughter].
Alex [01:03:44] I could have walked around with that, if anyone asked me how I feel about the country sometimes, "Here you go!".
Zane [01:03:50] Yeah! It's so pointed. It's so, it's so clear exactly what she's saying with her composition at that point 'cause it's such a familiar piece of music. And yet she takes it and she turns it into something that, from my perspective, sounds unfamiliar. But if I turn it around and I put myself in your shoes, I can see exactly how it's exactly how you see it. You know what I mean? Maybe that doesn't make sense, but...
Alex [01:04:15] No, it makes perfect sense. And, you know, it's so funny 'cause... if I can, I love theory and all this stuff, the... how she keeps the anthem in a major...
Giacomo [01:04:27] Note for note.
Alex [01:04:28] It doesn't change at all, and yet...
Zane [01:04:31] Exactly!
Alex [01:04:31] I am at around this like idealist's... I mean that... If that's not America at this point. [laughter]
Zane [01:04:36] Amen!
Music Excerpt [01:04:38] [01:04:38] [Music excerpt: the last few lines of the "Star-Spangled Banner" is arranged in complex and tight harmony - an extract from Dr. Zanaida Robles' composition "Can You See"]
Giacomo [01:05:09] Let's talk a little bit about the idea of returning to singing, because I think this is something that you've touched upon - It's really hard to make music when you're not, when you're a choral organization and you're not really able to sing together. And we make do and it's fine. And we certainly have over the last year...
Zane [01:05:23] And Tonality's done a great job of...
Giacomo [01:05:26] Have done an extraordinary job.
Zane [01:05:26] ... making do. I would say making do is actually not the right statement.
Giacomo [01:05:29] It's not even, yeah... It's not even making do. I mean, most of us have been making do. You have been spinning gold, which is really remarkable. So we've all experienced some degree of what we might feel is grief or trauma, what was essentially a lost year for many folks, in addition to the very real grief and trauma felt by those who have lost loved ones to COVID... As we consider a return to singing in person, what are you considering with regards to creating a space where your singers will feel comfortable in the same space with one another? I mean, how are you thinking about bringing everyone back together for in-person rehearsals and performances?
Alex [01:06:01] Yeah, we're right in the middle of that right now. We start auditions in June. The first part of that will be virtual - might as well use it since we have it. But the callbacks will be in person. And I think that's gonna be involving checking on people's vaccination status as well. But also the comfort, you know - it was the same thing for the Kronos Quartet in the middle of the pandemic. I think there are people who have been itching to get back and, you know, I want to do this. And then there are people who are saying, "I want to do this and I also want to breathe freely.".
Alex [01:06:37] So umm... Kind of making sure that we are checking in and asking questions that probably involve a lot of questionnaires and surveys. And again, and asking our singers to be vaccinated, frankly. Yeah. To me, that's just a statement of like, "This is how we are going to care for our community and each other, especially as super spreaders." To me there really is no question - if we're going to be together, we need to make sure that we are all doing whatever we can. But I'm finding, you know, more things are opening up. More opportunities for singing have already been established here in the city. And so people are willing to get together if they know that the type of protocols are set in place to keep them as safe as we can.
Giacomo [01:07:21] We completely agree. Both of our organizations, the GGMC and IOCSF, are all kind of contemplating this question, which is why I brought it up. And we just recently did an episode as well with Dr. Jeremy Faust sort of talking about this, which is fantastic. So, yes! Everyone listening, get yourselves vaccinated, especially if you want to get back to singing with one another. It's the safest thing we can do.
Zane [01:07:40] And it's the best thing we can do for the population as a whole: Just get vaccinated!
Giacomo [01:07:45] 100 percent!
Zane [01:07:45] Just do it! [laughter]
Giacomo [01:07:45] 100 percent. Alex, I want to talk a little bit about leadership and self-care, and maybe this is a little bit for Zane - a question for you as well. You know, look, I'm just a singer, right? In a couple of ensembles. And while we might have all experienced this past year of turmoil as individuals and collectives, I think the burden of leadership during this time feels particularly heavy, like not only are you responsible for yourself as an individual, but now you are responsible for an organization as well. As a leader, how have you cared for yourself during this time? Have you found that burden to be true, by the way, or would you say that that's true?
Alex [01:08:26] Mmmm... It's interesting. I would say as a Tonality leader - no. I think the community has been pretty supportive. And I... yeah, I feel like if ever I need to step back there, there are certainly a number of people. Like I said, the virtual choirs at this point can run quite efficiently without me. I'll say as a black leader, that has been some of the more challenging work, I think. And it's really helped me kind of see myself in this new place of being a leader, which is probably something I hadn't really considered self care, though. I hadn't realized how much I had neglected that. I think, at least I will say in my experience, self care and self worth are very correlated. And I think it's been really easy just being very vulnerable.
Alex [01:09:19] It's been easy to talk about justice and talk about some of the things, even if they kind of directly or indirectly affect my identities because I feel like I've been talking about community, I've been talking about others. But it's been harder for me to really act and speak for my benefit. And I found that kind, you know - no one else can really do that work except me. And so that self care part has been something that I've worked on this past year. Now, that looks a lot like the gym and, you know, going on rocks and really kind of spending time trying to figure out what I enjoy doing, which I hadn't realized I couldn't really answer before this time because I was really good at keeping myself busy. The pandemic, ironically, did not stop any of that, but it definitely made for extra time.
Alex [01:10:16] So, yeah, I think really what I had heard and, you know, doing therapy and what I had received and that was a message of how can you adequately care for others if you, one, are not in a good place and, two, if you haven't learned how to care for yourself 'cause some of that inspiration should be coming inward-out, not the other way around. And so, yeah, I would say maybe for me, this is the first time I really kind of prioritized what does it look like for self care and to make sure that I am well. And so I would say, in some ways, the pandemic has given extra time to really focus on that before everything opens up. And then, you know, I'm sure everyone's going to be rushing to do all the things. So time to just be and be still and rest, or at least imagine what rest looks like, has been my experience. So I don't know if that... that might not be like the leader self care, but that's definitely been my developing process this past year.
Zane [01:11:21] It sounds very familiar to my mind as well, you know, going on a walk every morning and just being with myself and looking, trying to look inward as much as I look outward, you know. 'Cause, as a leader, I spend so much of my time looking out at what is in front of me and thinking about the needs and and the cares of the folks that I'm directing and that I'm encouraging through their path, their musical path, typically. But in other ways I find myself a leader. But I agree with you, Alex, that prior to COVID, I spent very little time turning that camera around and looking at myself and thinking about how am I taking care of myself? And you're so right. Like, the more you take care of yourself, the more equipped you are to take care of others. That's a really, really fantastic sentiment.
Zane [01:12:11] While we're on the subject of mental health, let's listen to a new release by Tonality of a composition by Shawn Kirchner entitled "Tulips", featuring soloists Meredith Pyle Pedley and David Morales. The text of the piece is selected stanzas from the poem "Tulips" by Sylvia Plath, in which the flowers she was once given while recuperating from surgery reminded her of life and the pain that it brings. Tonality's message is one of hope - hope that the song will allow for people to feel like their experience with any mental challenge is less isolating and hope that there is room for relief, grace and the space to ask for and receive support. [01:12:55] [Music excerpt: a halting, arpeggiated chord on piano introduces the song before a female soloist sings a breathy and aching melody - eventually joined by the chorus and a male soloist to form a duet.]
Giacomo [01:17:56] So, Alex, looking forward, you know, we see the light at the end of the tunnel, we're all kind of... Hopefully, knock wood, we don't see a resurgence. What are you most excited about post-COVID? Do you have any projects or things that we can tell folks about that you're, that you're looking forward to?
Alex [01:18:13] Yes! I... Tonality has a new album coming out, so that is...
Giacomo [01:18:19] Ooh!
Alex [01:18:19] ... really exciting. Yes. Yes. Yes! So, umm... And actually, you've heard most of the tracks on it. It's gonna be the tracks of the past year. And I think right now the album is going to be called... this might be premature, but I think the album - it's gonna be called "America Will Be", which is certainly the, you know, Joel Thompson's beautiful piece that we were able to present earlier this year - I think another kind of one of our more striking visual aspects. But, you know, thinking about all the work that we have done, especially the subjects that we have covered in this past year, speaking to a new equitable future has definitely been the work and been the conversation. And just the fact that we have a piece that kind of, the title encompasses that and what that means for us is, is great. So, yeah, so that's coming out probably at the end of the summer. And that will involve some pieces that you haven't heard yet. So it's exciting. And then, of course, next year I'm getting back to the concert space. A concept will be presented for the album and we'll do an album release - that'll be exciting.
Alex [01:19:33] For me, personally, some dream jobs have happened. And so, I probably can't say the names of the projects, but I was able to work on some films and I was able to conduct on some films. And actually one of those films involves Tonality.
Zane [01:19:53] Excellent.
Giacomo [01:19:54] Wow...
Alex [01:19:54] Yeah. And yeah, that's gonna be really exciting. And I think it's gonna be really surprising to see which film that was. But it's really special to say that, you know... again, five years ago during the first rehearsal in this, I just want to be diverse and not feel weird. And now, thinking we are singing on films [laughter]... because L.A. And yes, I would say it's gonna be an exciting year as we move. We're doing a performance thing at Western ACDA conference and might be working with some other artists outside of our choral atmosphere. Yes, I think we have a lot to look forward to once open up.
Zane [01:20:41] That's great! Well we'll put, of course, and we always include, you know, as deep of show notes as we can for the podcast. But we also have a great website that Giacomo has built and maintains. And there, we will definitely put links as best we can to all the videos that Tonality has put out, because obviously, this being an audio podcast, we can't share the videos during the podcast, but we would definitely direct our audience to go and check that stuff out on the website for sure. And of course, we'll put links to Tonality's website and to all social media accounts where you are active, for sure.
Giacomo [01:21:17] And maybe as a parting final shot for our interview, folks, auditions for Tonality are coming up! You definitely put, put your, put your name in the hat. It's a spectacular group! It's a really special group. And Alex, you have so much to be proud of. I think it's... what you have accomplished in just such a short period of time is extraordinary. You are an inspiration and you are lovely. I'm so glad we actually finally got the chance to sit down and chat.
Alex [01:21:43] Yes, same here!
Zane [01:21:43] This has been really, really wonderful. We thank you for taking the time and for sharing your thoughts and your insights. It's been, it's been a great conversation. Really wonderful.
Alex [01:21:51] Thank you for having me.
Zane [01:21:52] Yeah.
Zane [01:21:53] Let's finish off today's episode with something that shows Tonality's ability to bridge genres and styles across the choral spectrum while still getting their message across. Here's "Democracy" by Jared Jenkins. [01:22:07] [Music excerpt: a pop, a cappella style with a deep bass and vocal percussion introduces this song about what it takes to preserve and maintain democracy. The song features several soulful solos.]
Outro [01:26:51] Thanks for listening to this week’s episode of the In Unison podcast. Be sure to check out episode extras and subscribe at inunison podcast dot com. You can follow us on all social media @inunisonpod. And leave us a review on Apple podcasts to let us know what you think!
Chorus Dolores [01:27:08] Tap shoes and show choir vests shined and dry cleaned by Chorus Dolores, who knows that "spirit fingers" are life!
Credits [01:27:20] In Unison is produced and recorded by Mission: Orange Studios. Our theme music is Mr. Puffy, written by Avi Bortnick, arranged by Paul Kim, and performed by the Danish vocal jazz ensemble Dynamic on their debut album, This Is Dynamic. Special thanks to Paul Kim for permission. Be sure to check them out at dynamicjazz.dk.