S4E07: Getting Into Treble: Conductor Martín Benvenuto
Photo: Matthew Washburn
Today’s episode is a conversation with Dr. Martin Benvenuto, a treble choir specialist, about his journey from singing in choirs in Argentina to leading some of the most respected treble choirs in the Bay Area. We will also chat about his new choir, 21V, a professional SSAA chorus which is inclusive of voices of all gender identities.
And now a word from our hosts!
Edited by Fausto Daos
Music excerpts
“Gloria Kajoniensis: I. Gloria in excelsis Deo,” by Levente Gyöngyösi, performed live by the Peninsula Women’s Chorus at the 2016 ACDA Western Division Convention
“Missa Brevis: I. Kyrie,” by Ramona Luengen, performed by the Peninsula Women’s Chorus on the album Carols and Lullabies
“Dona Nobis Pacem,” by Ko Matsushita, performed by the Peninsula Women’s Chorus on the album Mostly Made in America
“Rise Up,” by Jake Runestad, performed by the Peninsula Women’s Chorus on their most recent album Women Making Waves
Episode references
Theme Song: Mr. Puffy by Avi Bortnik, arr. by Paul Kim. Performed by Dynamic
Episode Transcript
Zane [00:00:07] Hello! And welcome to In Unison, the podcast about new choral music and the conductors, composers and choristers who create it. We are your hosts. I am Zane Fiala, Artistic Director of the International Orange Chorale of San Francisco.
Giacomo [00:00:20] And I'm Giacomo DiGrigoli, a tenor in IOCSF, the Golden Gate Men's Chorus, and the San Francisco Symphony Chorus. And this is In Unison. (I like being in unison!)
Zane [00:00:34] Hey, everybody. We just wanted to take a moment and say a big thank you to the folks who are helping support the creation of this podcast. We couldn't have made it this far without our generous donors. So, today we're giving a shout out to two members of the Golden Gate Men's Chorus in San Francisco and great friends of the Pod, Kenn Keitt and Randy Kikukawa. Thanks, guys! If you would like to help support In Unison, please visit inunisonpodcast.com/donate.
Zane [00:01:03] Today on In Unison, we're talking with Dr. Martín Benvenuto, a treble choir specialist, about his journey from singing in choirs in Argentina to leading some of the most respected treble choirs in the Bay Area. We will also chat about his new treble choir called 21V, which is inclusive of voices of all genders. But first, let's get started with some music. Here's Martín directing the Peninsula Women's Chorus at the 2016 ACDA Western Division Conference in a performance of Levente Gyöngyösi's Gloria Kajoniensis. This is movement one, "Gloria in excelsis Deo." [00:01:43] [Music excerpt: a relentless rhythm issues forth from a drum and string instruments while a treble choir jubilantly sings and praises God.]
Zane [00:04:56] OK, joining us today on In Unison is Dr. Martín Benvenuto, a native of Buenos Aires, Argentina. Martín has served as artistic director of the Peninsula Women's Chorus, WomenSing and the Contra Costa Children's Chorus. He's also served on the faculty of the Piedmont East Bay Children's Choir and is quite active as a clinician, panelist and guest conductor, both at home and abroad. Martín's choirs have been dedicated to commissioning new works from upcoming and established composers from the U.S. and abroad, and have been selected to perform at Chorus America and ACDA conferences. His choirs have also earned honors and high marks in international competitions in Argentina, South Africa, Canada, Hungary and Spain, including the Peninsula Women's Chorus' winning of the American Prize in Choral Performance in 2015 and WomenSing taking home the Chorus America ASCAP Alice Parker Award in 2010. Martín is also the founder and artistic director of 21V, a professional ensemble of soprano and alto voices of all gender identities with a focus on music of the 21st Century of the Americas, and we will definitely talk more about that a little later. Martín holds a DMA in Choral Conducting from Boston University, where he studied with Ann Howard Jones and the late Robert Shaw. He earned his masters from Westminster Choir College and his undergrad degrees in choral conducting and composition are from the Universidad Catolica Argentina. Martín, thanks so much for joining us today! We're very excited to chat with you. I hope I didn't butcher the pronunciation of the school in Argentina. [laughter]
Martín [00:06:37] No, you did great. You did great. Thanks for having me, guys.
Giacomo [00:06:41] Welcome, Martín. It is wonderful to see you again. I have had the great pleasure of actually having worked with you and I believe as a clinician through the Golden Gate Men's Chorus, and so it's nice to reconnect today. But for those folks who have not had an opportunity to get to know you a little bit, we like to start with an icebreaker. So here's one for you. Martin, what is the strangest gift you've ever received?
Martín [00:07:07] It's a little of a bizarre story, I guess. So it fits. So I was at a deli and I am noticing this gentleman following me around and seeing me checking out my shoes. And I thought it was bizarre, to say the least, that... I was wearing typical Argentinean "mocasines". And so, finally, at the checkout line, he just asked me where I got my shoes. And I say, "Buenos Aires". And so he says, "I knew it!" And proceeds to tell me that his brother in law from Peru has just passed away. And he had similar shoes to mine and that he has these shoes in his car trunk, in the parking lot, and he wants to give them to me. [laughter from Giacomo and Zane].
Martín [00:07:58] I'm like... I'm baffled, but unbelievably trusting. I just walked to his car and he gives me that guy's shoes. And then, you know, I had the trepidation follow after, you know, having them in my trunk. I just, I... You know, choirs have resources, right? So, I remember my choir's partner who worked at SFO Airport Security. I ended up passing the shoes off to her so she could screen them to put through security in action. So, yeah, so I still wear them today on special occasions.
Giacomo [00:08:36] That's fantastic. The first half of that story sounds like a, like a Hemingway short story or something... dead man's shoes.
Martín [00:08:43] I know!
Giacomo [00:08:44] The second half suddenly twists into like, I don't know, like, what's the guy's name, one of those spy movies or something? [laughter from Zane]
Martín [00:08:50] I don't know why it is, but I... I do, I am approached by people with weird propositions sometimes. So, I just... I guess that's why I was trusting and not feeling that this was anything to be afraid of. But anyway, they're nice shoes actually. [laughter from Zane].
Giacomo [00:09:09] Actually... And they are. No, I mean, handmade shoes are quite a thing in Buenos Aires, aren't they? I mean, like, I feel like a lots of folks get those "mocasines". Well, I'm going to add that to my Christmas list. So that's a fantastic list.
Zane [00:09:23] Yeah, right. Exactly. [laughter].
Martín [00:09:23] Martín, to let folks know a little bit more about you, we'd love to talk a little bit about your background and, as Zane mentioned, you are from Argentina. And I think one of the things that would be interesting to know is what first inspired you to pursue choral music.
Martín [00:09:38] Yeah, I think my first inspiration was my choir teacher in elementary school. Like many of us, right? Her name is Julia [indecipherable]. And my school was not co-ed at that time, and so the boys school had a less than satisfactory choir and the girls school had a fantastic choir and they had sung on national public radio and they were just... I thought they were amazing and they were conducted by Julia and they used to have some joint assemblies once in a while, the boys and girls school at this one joint assembly at the start of the fifth grade. I umm... They made an announcement that Julia was going to be coming to the boys school to conduct the boys course. And I was a pretty shy and quiet and very well behaved kid, and I literally jumped off my chair. I was so... [laughter from Giacomo]. And the rest is history. She really became a mentor and actually, in 2005, when I took WomenSing on tour to Argentina, she was in attendance.
Giacomo [00:10:54] Aaah...
Martín [00:10:54] At our concert in Teatro Colón and... Yeah, she was fantastic. She had perfect pitch, had had like this sort of bright and an exact sense of pitch and... Yeah. She was just a fantastic pianist as well and an all round wonderful musician and I think that's where - I mean, I was already musically inclined and had already started to study violin and a little bit of piano - but the singing and singing and the choir thing came from her.
Zane [00:11:29] So, what kind of music is a choir of fifth graders in Argentina singing?
Martín [00:11:34] You know what? Spirituals.
Zane [00:11:37] Spirituals?
Martín [00:11:37] Isn't that amazing? We... I had my first solo in elementary school with "Swing Low, Sweet Chariot", and we did quite a bit of spirituals. And, this is a bilingual school. So, it's called St Andrew's Scots School. It still exists today and was founded by Scottish immigrants.
Martín [00:12:02] And so we did University of Cambridge examinations and all that stuff. So the... I guess the literature that we sang was broad, but very Anglo driven in a way, you know. So yeah, that... I think that's the most... We did, but though... We did, you know, we did like, I also sang in this small trio of the "knaben" from Magic Flute, but in Spanish... a Spanish version.
Zane [00:12:35] All right.
Giacomo [00:12:37] [laughter] That's fantastic. Are there other... Are there differences in style between U.S. and Argentinian choral singing?
Martín [00:12:42] Yes, I would say so. Umm... I would say I, I would say that years ago, my impression was that Argentinean choral singing was... tended to be more visceral and sort of raw. Which it can have its positive aspects, you know, it's communicative for sure. And the less positive aspects being that, you know, the loud singing can very easily become "shouty". That's fairly typical. And, but Argentineans appreciate - both conductors and singers - appreciate the discipline of American choral singing, you know, the intonation and the overall precision. But at the same time, I find it sometimes a little less engaging, a little more detached. But I would say that that's - I don't know, maybe twenty five years ago when I came to the U.S., that's that was the case. I feel that now those differences are less pronounced. There's overlap all over the place. But I wonder, you know, now I've been in the U.S. for so long that it's hard for me to have a, you know, a discerning year as to what the real differences are. But when I first came, that was very telling, you know.
Zane [00:14:03] Let's hear a little bit of how Martín puts that precision into practice with his own groups. Here is the Kyrie movement of Ramona Luengen's Missa Brevis, performed by the Peninsula Women's Chorus on the album "Carols and Lullabies". [00:14:19] [Music excerpt: a lilting and gentle melody issues forth from a women's choir, with soprano and alto parts intertwining to create a tender plea for mercy - "Kyrie eleison"]
Giacomo [00:15:54] Maybe you can tell us a little bit something about culturally, some of the music that you might be bringing with you, which is specific to Argentina. Maybe something a little bit about the Argentinean art song or the history of Argentinean art songs? Or is that some of the music that you would bring into your repertoire these days as well?
Martín [00:16:14] Yeah, I have. I have to an extent. I mean, I'm a voice teacher and - though I don't do it as often as I should - but Argentine art song is, like in most South American countries, has a history of the intersection of, you know, the European influence and it's... and nativism, if you will, and how that developed. But... Yeah, I mean, here in the U.S., Ginastera is somebody that people know, mostly through his orchestral work, but his "Cinco Canciones" are great. They're fantastic for the pianist and they're very "show off-y" for the singer. But the... where I go with art song is Guastavino... Carlos Guastavino. He was a more conservative and lyrical composer, and his song cycles are just beautiful. And so we call him - I don't know who dubbed him so - but he has been called the Schubert of the pampas, the Schubert of the plains, you know? And I've programmed actually, you know, a couple of his songs. There's actually a former student of his who lives in Germany, who's arranged a whole bunch of - I found this out like 10 years ago - he has arrangements for SSAA chorus of his, many of his art songs, and they were approved by Gustavino himself. So, which was a, you know, a treasure. I'm never very fond of these arrangements of art songs per se, but these are, you know, had... Guastavino's stamp of approval. So I programmed some of those as well. Yeah.
Giacomo [00:18:07] Well, Martín, you bring a ton of your professional and cultural backgrounds are just an absolute force of choral arts here in the Bay Area. I mean, you've brought quite a bit of this experience here. Tell us a little bit about some of your history in... Here in the Bay Area, who are some of the organizations that you've worked with and collaborated in the Bay?
Martín [00:18:29] Well, I've conducted both WomenSing and the Peninsula Women's Chorus for over 15 years, and I also worked with the Piedmont East Bay Children's Choir and the Contra Costa Children's Chorus. So, all of this in the treble chorus realm. So, backtracking to Julia Gargano, I think that that's kind of where my treble chorus love started, if you will. I do remember vividly, like even before she came to our school, how I would listen to the girls choir perform an arrangement of I don't know what. And I would go back home with my rudimentary musicianship skills, and I would write down the close harmonies. I just wanted to figure out like, "What was that an added sixth or something?" Like I was just trying to, you know, I was attracted to that sonority and I wanted to understand it better, you know.
Zane [00:19:26] So from a very young age, the soprano and alto, the treble choir sound was something that...
Martín [00:19:33] Yeah!
Zane [00:19:34] ... drew you in.
Martín [00:19:35] Yeah, yeah.
Zane [00:19:37] I don't think that I can say that for myself about treble choirs or about, you know, TTBB or anything. I just like the choral sound of... Overall. What about you, Giacomo? Do you feel drawn to one sound or the other when you were younger?
Giacomo [00:19:51] I do. It's interesting. Historically, I have always sung in TTBB. I mean, until I came to San Fran... Even actually when I came to San Francisco with the GGMC, it was only afterwards that I branched out and thought, "You know, I ought to try some, some different things." Like, it's when I joined the IOC for the SATB experience and then the Symphony after that that I kind of got exposed to that. But it's interesting. I mean, it sort of leads me into a thought about the overall choral arts scene in the Bay Area. I mean, there's... You know, you've got quite a smattering of different organizations. Martín, how would you define the overall choral arts scene in the Bay Area? And do you think it's healthy, thriving? Are there things that are missing or things that you like?
Martín [00:20:30] I call it adventurous. I think it's... it's open to new ideas and open to new people. And I think that there's a nice... For me, coming from Boston, maybe, you know, sometimes you sort of, you define a scene by contrast with the scene you came from. For me, Boston was... I was still in school, so I was not really, you know, inserted in the professional scene. But what I liked about the Bay Area immediately was that combination of serious music making and that - I don't know - that "je ne sais quoi" of California laid back, you know. Where there is, there's an informality within the formality of the music making. That was appealing to me, you know. I was very sort of academic and intellectual. Yet, I'm also from Argentina where we have all this sort of warmth, you know, and this extra hugging and kissing [laughter]. So, I think that that and sort of more informal approach to things that... So, I think that's one of the reasons that the Bay Area, in general and particularly the choral arts scene here, felt like a fit.
Zane [00:21:48] In the realm of - this will probably lead us into a conversation about 21V, which is great - in the realm of trouble choirs, what is it that's great that we should hold on to? And then, what's new and exciting? What's missing? What are we - and this is going to lead into 21V - what are we looking to add to the conversation by adding a new treble voice chorus?
Martín [00:22:09] Yeah. I just think that, that... Well, for one, with the amount of high quality treble choirs that there are in the Bay Area, one of the things that I think is that we, choral practitioners have, could do more work on, is just trying to really think about how we're going to continue to build audiences so this choral arts ecosystem can continue to grow. There are so many people saying so many things about, you know, about this art form that we need to continue to cultivate that. And yeah... I mean, for me, 21V, that starting a new group now felt... The time seemed ripe and the pandemic's allowed me to devote time, energy to really craft and articulate and refine the ideas behind what this would be.
Martín [00:23:16] And one of the things that I feel... Gender inclusivity is sort of one of the core values of 21V. And I've always sort of thought about what would, what would that sound be. What would that treble sound be, where we bring in countertenors and we have, you know, trans women and we have cis woman and we have, you know... So, we have that sort of full spectrum of human experience and how does that reveal itself in the treble choral sound, which has been very gender-oriented, either with boys choirs or, you know, with adult women's choirs, etc. So, yeah, that was...
Martín [00:24:05] And I have to say that I'm - many times, when I'm called on to doing clinician work, I'm called on because of my seemingly good skills at creating a unified sound and whatnot, so I'm sort of like asking for trouble with this [laughter from Giacomo and Zane] in trying to bring so many different colors together but that's actually a challenge that excites me. So, yeah.
Zane [00:24:35] I wonder... I'm wondering, is there, do you find that there's like a difference in the sound of one treble choir to another treble choir to another? Because, you know, when it comes to like an SATB group, obviously the size of the group makes a difference to the sound. But then you can cultivate a richer or a leaner sound depending on what you want as a director. Would you say that there's a lot of variation in the color spectrum and in the sound spectrum of a treble voice choir?
Martín [00:25:03] I would think so. Yes.
Zane [00:25:06] And what makes it different? What influences it? How would you influence the sound of a treble choir to make it more to your liking or to make it different or whatever?
Martín [00:25:16] I think that I have... I tend to lean towards a sound that has that sort of like, ahh, combination of the Italian sort of forward, you know, clear sound and the German depth, you know. And I, and I find that - going back to, you know, to some of our western sort of idols Eric Ericson and the Swedish Chamber Choir - that sound for me, regardless whether it's SATB or SSAA, that sound for me is sort of an ideal that I think that my ear tends to go towards where you can find depths. But not at the expense of, you know, of clean, clear harmonies and... and so, um, yeah.
Martín [00:26:14] But I do think that, you know, there are, there are approaches - I think, you know, there are as many sounds as there are conductors. That's my, my sense. I think we, whether we want it or not, we impose our sound ideal in our choirs, regardless of what, what the composition of the choir is as far as singers. I think, and I'm not trying to say that singers don't have an impact, of course they do. But I always find it fascinating, from back in grad school, how we could have a same group of singers singing the exact same piece and you get somebody else in front of that same group and the sound - not only the shape of the line, of course, the music is different because the tempo and what have you. But the sound itself changes substantially, and that's, for me, that's a little of a mystery. But it does, you know. It really does.
Zane [00:27:13] Why don't we take a moment and hear the sound that Martín brings out of the Peninsula Women's Chorus on their album, Mostly Made in America. This is "Dona nobis pacem" by Ko Matsushita. [00:27:27] [Music excerpt: a vaulting melody on the words "dona nobis pacem" is sung by one section of the choir, with other sections joining in layers of sound. The chorus sings insistently, with a plea, that grows almost into a demand, for peace.]
Giacomo [00:29:18] With 21V, I think you're breaking ground on a, what I would consider to be a new instrument, I mean, an all gender treble choir sounds like it would be quite interesting and certainly the unique voices that you will pull together will craft a sound. But how do you think about repertoire selection? Does the notion of this new instrument kind of take your brain into different places when you think about the types of music you'd like to perform with this group?
Martín [00:29:43] Well, I think our music ocus is going to be music composed after the year 2000 and music of the Americas. So it's a, it's sort of expanding the boundaries of what we considered, quote unquote "American" music to include north, central and south. As far as this being a sort of a new instrument, I see it both ways. I see it... hopefully, this will inspire composers to think of the treble instrument in different ways and explore different colors. And maybe, maybe our, you know, our vocal range for that treble choir is not as limited as we see it now. And at the same time, I see that, I see 21V as a sort of, as a new instrument for music that's already been written with some other, more traditional treble choir in mind. So it's both, you know. It's like, I don't know... I mean, this is an extreme example, but like I remember hearing like Purcell's "Dido" accompanied by an orchestra of saxophones. It's kind of, you know, reinventing the sound of something that's already there. And how, yeah... So, I do think that some pieces will fit better than others for the group, and that will be part of the journey.
Zane [00:31:13] Yeah, absolutely. That's a conversation that Giacomo and I have had many times among ourselves, but also when we had Morgan Baker on who was a guest on the show, who's the first non, you know, non male identifying singer to join the Duke's Men of Yale, a traditionally all male a cappella ensemble. And we talked on that episode about the different sound that the group has when it's all men singing the same music because they have recorded the same pieces of music with both, you know, groups of singers. And it sounds different to my ear. It sounds different when you have a couple of female voices singing those higher tenor parts.
Giacomo [00:31:57] Oh yeah, there's just a facility.
Zane [00:31:59] It sounds different.
Giacomo [00:31:59] There's a facility in that range that men just don't have.
Zane [00:32:01] There's also a timbre difference.
Martín [00:32:03] Right.
Zane [00:32:04] So, it's very much like what you're just saying, Martín, about having this piece of music that was not written for an orchestra of saxophones because what music is, but then hearing a piece of music written performed by a chorus of saxophones that makes that piece of music totally new. And so, I imagine...
Martín [00:32:20] Right. Right. Right.
Zane [00:32:20] ... that's something that's very exciting for you as you start to look at repertoire. So, you know, are there some pieces that come to mind that you have already experienced that are, that would fit into this category of 21st century choral music for treble voices that you've already been introduced to, that you're excited to put in front of 21V and hear how the sound of that piece of music changes? Does anything specific come to mind?
Martín [00:32:48] I don't know that I have a spec... I haven't planned it that way where, you know, I'm looking to, you know, dress this piece in these new clothes. I've... I guess I've thought of it more from a theme perspective, you know, and what, how it's going to connect to our, to our tagline, which is "a catalyst for change". And I try to challenge, you know, boundaries in general. But I... Yeah, I mean, I can, but I can think of pieces that I have done before that I would be interested to see how they would sound with this, you know, with this new instrument, if you will.
Giacomo [00:33:32] Martín, what's what's most important for you right now as you think about the formation of this group? I mean, what are you most excited about?
Martín [00:33:40] Yeah. Well, I think this... But we were talking about the innovation of the treble choral sound itself - where treble is defined by range and not by gender. I think that's one of the things that are the most important. But I think it also comes down to my involvement with contemporary music and the fact that I've been enjoying for a number of years now that my art and my presence exists in the same universe. And in these times, I felt like an almost imperative need to say yes to affirm things in a broad sense, to be able to tell through music untold or seldom heard stories that perhaps will allow us to move through to a better time, you know? And so that's also, you know, important to me, and I think with 21V, we can do this in a number of areas - obviously in the in the sonic area per se, but also in the ways we approach programing and audience building and, you know, every aspect of the organization.
Giacomo [00:34:55] We've spoken a lot on this program about how choral arts can be a catalyst for social change. I mean, we have seen with Tonality in Los Angeles...
Martín [00:35:04] Mmhmm.
Giacomo [00:35:04] We've seen with the Resistance Revival Chorus and groups like Lorelei Ensemble and Kaleidoscope, I mean, groups that are doing some tremendous things. And would you say that that's also just something that feels like a natural fit for most choral artists. This idea that, as communities, we come together and we can be the change we want to see.
Martín [00:35:23] I think for us now, I do feel that choral artists now have a closer connection to our... we are reflecting more what's happening to us. And maybe that has to do with the fact that we are, in general, probably more contemporary music living composers and commissioning more work. I feel that that's part of the equation, but also what's happening in the world as a whole, I think, is influencing that. I look back, you know, to some of the post-9/11 times and think about where we were in the choral art form there. And I just don't... I mean, I'm sure there were. But, and maybe history will tell the story in a different way, but I didn't feel that as important a turning point that was... That the choral art reflected that as much as it has, it's reflecting now. For example, our issues of racial justice and gender inequality and what have you. So, I feel that there is a particular moment in time now that is galvanizing us as artists in a different way.
Giacomo [00:36:45] Does that translate into your thoughts about repertoire as well, like specifically about the composers that you want to work with? I mean, are there people in mind that you're like, "Yes, these are underrepresented folks or marginalized folks or or underserved?"
Martín [00:36:58] Yeah. I mean, a part of...
Giacomo [00:37:02] Who are some of those composers that come to mind that you're like, "Yeah, we should, I should be programing these folks."?
Martín [00:37:06] Or. Yeah. I mean, for me, that's where I find that I have an opportunity to bring to the scene to give more visibility to folks in Latin America as a whole. There are, one of the things I've said to my potential singers for 21V, is that I want to I wanted to discover with you who are the, you know, the Meredith Monks and the Libby Larsons and Eric Whitacre's and that, you know and David Langs of Latin America. Who are they? I mean, they're out there. We just, in some countries, the conditions for, you know, for art flourishing or choral music flourishing are maybe very different than they are from ours. But there is, I think, a universal capturing of the moment that the world is living. And that's something that interests me. And I have... One of, one of the projects that I undertook during the pandemic was collecting, you know, really having a repository of, and starting to curate a list of people that I feel need to be heard. It would be, you know, it would be fascinating for us to know what they have to say.
Giacomo [00:38:23] Well, I'm excited to hear who they are, so I will definitely be at your first concerts and maybe you'll toss us a name or two that we can play on the program, so... [laughter].
Martín [00:38:32] Yeah!
Zane [00:38:32] Yeah, yeah.
Martín [00:38:32] I'm just I'm debating as to whether I should do it right now because I feel like, well... you know.
Giacomo [00:38:37] No, no, no. Take a moment. We'll layer it in.
Martín [00:38:38] What's going on here? So and so and... anyway [laughter from Giacomo]. But yes, but it is also a discovery for me, you know. I realize that I, you know, although being from that part of the world, I have gaps. I have huge gaps. And I'm... If it weren't for the pandemic, I think I would have embarked on a three month, six month tour and just like, just make stops, you know, just go through the whole continent and just, you know, figure out what I needed to figure out. And rather than trying to do it online via Zoom, you know.
Zane [00:39:13] I mean, thank goodness for for social media and things such as that to keep us connected to people because when you and I spoke on the phone a month ago or something to talk about 21V and things, you mentioned a group on Facebook called Compositores Corales Argentinos XXI (I'm not sure what that that part of it stands for) but you mentioned that as a place where all of these composers are a member of this group and they're all Argentinian composers, and I actually reached out to them and asked for, to be put in touch with some of these composers to talk to, for this podcast specifically.
Martín [00:39:51] Oh cool.
Zane [00:39:52] And they wrote back really fast and sent me a list of their current members, and it's something like 15 different composers. And so I've gotten contact information. So we're going to be reaching out to several composers.
Martín [00:40:03] Great! There's some really interesting voices in that group. Yeah.
Zane [00:40:05] Yeah. And so, some of them, I'm wondering if you might say just a little bit about the music of some of these folks, maybe like Edgard Moya Godoy. Do you know this composer's music?
Martín [00:40:17] Yeah, he's from Córdoba. He's from the central part of Argentina, and he's a really interesting guy and he's actually one of the ones that started this group, I believe. And his music is very ethereal, a lot of... There's... I think there is a, I don't know Zane if you would agree with this, but there is a movement I would say in contemporary music here in the US, away from the sacred and trying to explore more secular themes. (You know, these generalizations are always a little risky, but I'll just go there.).
Martín [00:41:00] Whereas in, not surprisingly in Argentina, there is sort of a revisiting of the sacred because of our Catholic background and whatnot. But I think that Edgard does a really nice job of setting, you know, old text in a novel way.
Zane [00:41:21] Oh, yeah.
Martín [00:41:22] And so that, as a counterpoint to the more secular sort of direction in North America, I think there might be more outlooks on the sacred down south that might, you know, balance things out.
Zane [00:41:42] Yeah, we just had a conversation with Dale Trumbore...
Martín [00:41:45] Mmhmm.
Zane [00:41:45] ... a composer from southern, that's located in Southern California.
Martín [00:41:49] Yeah, I've worked with Dale before.
Zane [00:41:49] Yeah, she's amazing. But we had a whole conversation about this idea of bringing the sacred into her music, but not via sacred texts or the ways that she gets around using specific, specifically sacred texts, but still having an element of spirituality and sacredness to her compositions. And it was really interesting to hear her talk about that.
Martín [00:42:12] Yeah. She wrote a piece for us, for Women Sing actually, for our anniversary, where she took a Hildegard von Bingen text and she via, I don't know if she told you about this, but via... the technique is called erasure poetry?
Giacomo [00:42:28] Yes, she did.
Martín [00:42:30] Yeah, so she removed the sort of the more charged religious language, if you will, and kept the essence of the, of a more sort of universal aspect of it. And came up with her own poem, and that was what she set to music. So, I thought that was really cool. But again, it's a little bit of like this direction of where like, "We're not wanting to fall into that sacred only realm because it's been done so much or we're more interested in the secularity of things or whatnot." Whereas, in particular in Argentina where I'm more familiar with things, that I feel that there is still like a devotion to that and an interest in readings of those sacred texts.
Giacomo [00:43:19] Well, Martín, in our closing moments now, we wanted to ask you a little bit about where we can find you online and where can we learn more about 21V?
Martín [00:43:29] Yeah, so we're... We have a landing page on MailChimp right now. We're not, we're in the process of building a website, but right now you can really find us on Facebook and Instagram @21vchoir. And that links to our MailChimp.
Giacomo [00:43:43] And you yourself are at?
Martín [00:43:46] martinbenvenuto.com is my website. Yeah.
Zane [00:43:50] Well, this has been fascinating for me. I love learning about aspects of choral music that I don't know enough about, and treble choirs is definitely one of them. I can say I have, I've never... I've only once conducted a treble choir and it was actually just the sopranos and altos from IOC. So it's been great to hear, you know, your perspective, and I really look forward to seeing what 21V does and how it reshapes the choral scene in the Bay Area, because I'm sure that it will. It's going to be a new sound, and I think that bringing... Shining the light on new composers is something that we all feel strongly about. I know I do.
Martín [00:44:30] Yeah.
Giacomo [00:44:30] Absolutely.
Zane [00:44:30] That's the mission of IOCSF and Giacomo and I have talked about other ways that we're going to try to do that through this podcast. And so, we're glad to have made the connection with you, Martín, and to have you on and chat about this. And maybe we will have a whole episode featuring treble voice choir, you know, talk...
Martín [00:44:48] That will be fun!
Zane [00:44:49] about repertoire and new repertoire and feature some new composers. Or maybe we'll have a whole episode where we just talk about Argentinian choral music and get into that on the deep. We'll see.
Martín [00:44:59] Well, thank you guys for this opportunity and for this panel. I've been following In Unison for a little while and I really appreciate what you guys are bringing - your conversations, the in depth conversations and the discovery of some of us that are doing that. I find it often that we're sort of in our own worlds often in the choral world where we just, we only superficially know what is, what is the work of a choral practitioner. So it's good to have the opportunity to just kind of... know more.
Zane [00:45:32] Yeah. Well, that's definitely a goal of the podcast is to bring the choral community together at large. You know, each group is its own community and some singers are in multiple groups, such as Giacomo and so he kind of bridges those communities. But I think that the larger function of this podcast, at least in my mind, is that we're trying to bring together choral musicians from all over the world to be a part of this larger community so we can share ideas and we can talk about what's important and promote our art. So... So, thanks for being a part of it.
Giacomo [00:46:07] 100 percent. Yes, Martín, it is wonderful to see you again. I hope to see you in person very soon.
Martín [00:46:14] Nice to see you both. Thank you, Giacomo. Thank you, Zane.
Zane [00:46:16] Let's finish off today's episode with the opening track off the Peninsula Women's Chorus' most recent album, Women Making Waves. Here is Martín conducting "Rise Up" by Jake Runestad. [00:46:29] [Music excerpt: a galloping accompaniment from the piano underscore a tender request from the choir to rise up, which gradually builds in urgency and excitement to implore the listener into action - for there is so much yet to be done.]
Outro [00:51:00] Well, thanks for listening to this week's episode of the In Unison podcast. Be sure to check out episode extras and subscribe at inunison podcast dot com. You can follow us on all social media @inunisonpod. And leave us a review on Apple Podcasts to let us know what you think!
Chorus Dolores [00:51:18] Choir loft seats rearranged by chorus Dolores, whose favorite jewelry is the ring of a perfect fifth.
Credits [00:51:30] In Unison is produced and recorded by Mission: Orange Studios. Our transcripts have been diligently edited by IOCSF member and friend of the pod, Fausto Daos, and our theme music is Mr. Puffy, written by Avi Bortnick, arranged by Paul Kim and performed by the Danish vocal jazz ensemble Dynamic on their debut album, This is Dynamic. Special thanks to Paul Kim for permission. Please be sure to check them out at www.dynamicjazz.dk